Automatic thinking serves a purpose. If we were always controlled in our thinking it would be impossible to filter out certain information and would result in information overload. Self-remembering in the system really means that we often forget why we act in certain ways.
Some ways we act contradict each other. We are also unable to remember a total self that is congruent with all sides of ourselves. Again, this is true. But he goes to the lengths to say that if we have positive emotions one minute and negative emotions another minute it is not self-remembering, because we're contradicting ourselves.
This isn't true at all. For example, I could be trying to relax, which is positive, but when someone interrupts me I get angry, which is negative. They are both perfectly congruent with one another, but Ouspensky acts like it isn't. Which brings me to why Ouspensky has no grasp on emotions. He basically says that there are "wrong emotions" and that there are "right emotions" and that the "wrong" ones need to be discarded. The wrong emotions are basically negative emotions: anger, sadness, anxiety etc.
But anyone with a basic understanding of the human psyche knows that these emotions serve a useful purpose. When we are anxious it alerts us that our body is in a dangerous situation and that we need to deal with it appropriately. There is nothing inherently wrong with negative emotions. But Ouspensky actually goes so far to call these emotions unreal. If he doesn't see these emotions in himself all he's doing is repressing them.
And by telling other people to abandon their negative emotions, he is effectively telling them to repress theirs too. He said that you need to ignore negative emotions. Research suggests that repressing emotions actually make it harder for the emotions to go away. First of all, anyone who is in the daunting position of repressing thoughts knows that it is harder to ignore those thoughts than dealing with them. Usually the reverse of what you want happens: you end up thinking more about the thoughts you're trying to avoid.
But even when you are able to put them off, because something else distracts you, the feelings don't go away, they just build up. And the more they build up the harder it is to deal with them. When you examine Ouspensky's other ideas, they just come accross as completely ridiculous. In one chapter he says that the moon controls our behaviour and that we communicate with the moon. This is nothing more than pseudoscience.
He says that when we die the moon eats us, because it is hungry. He goes on about how we consume "impressions" in this convoluted explanation that lack any parsimony.
I don't see what benefit there is for believing in any of this nonsense. It is no surprise to me that Ouspensky abandoned the system long after people already committed to following his outrageous ideas. I literally thought to myself "he probably abandoned the system" before having read it, because there's no way anyone could rationally live with such absurd beliefs.
I realize that a lot of my criticisms don't just fall on Ouspensky, but Gurdjieff for postulating them. But I take it how it is. Whether or not these are Ouspensky's ideas, he still believed in them and should still be accountable for it. I probably wouldn't be so bothered by the system if it was actually clear on what the terminology means and how it should be practiced.
Even though Ouspensky consistently says that the system is practical and not theoretical, there is really nothing that actually tells you how to self-remember or become conscious, so your guess is as good as mine how to actually practice this. Until then, I find the system and his teaching style discouraging and is not worth my time.
View all 8 comments. Oct 23, Steve rated it it was amazing. Classic Ouspensky, also try and read Gurdjieff if you can, it will blow your mind! Jul 08, William rated it it was amazing Shelves: spiritual-books. I understand that this book is out of fashion. That's a shame, but then Ouspensky said that the Fourth Way will never be popular because it demands effort. This book is of his lectures, with questions and answers. Ouspensky, the teacher, was not very interested in inspiring his students with the mysteries of the higher worlds.
But he was interested in outlining the practices and principles that give us the possibility of changing our 'being. If you are disappointed with belief and hope and want answers, this book is for you. Highly recommended. Jan 19, James Beezhold added it. I read this while living on the street years ago. What I learned was that there is no "I" but many "I"s sort of competing for supremacy,that there is such a thing as spiritual mechanics.
Not that man is machine,but rather the machine is a functional expression of man's spiritual aim and as such remains an indwelling of human potential. View 2 comments. Aug 12, Flowquietly rated it it was amazing. The most ordinary mind, let us call it the logical mind, is sufficient for all the simple problems of life.
We can build a house with this mind, obtain food, know that two and two make four, that the " Volga falls into the Caspian Sea " and that " horses eat oats and hay ". So that in its proper place the logical mind is quite right and quite useful. But when the logical mind meets with problems which are too big, and when it does not stop before them but starts out to solve them, it inevitably falls down, loses touch with reality and becomes in fact " defective ".
To this " defective mind " and " defective method " of observation and reasoning humanity owes all superstitions and false theories beginning with the "devil with a goose's foot" and ending with marxism and psychoanalysis. But a logical mind which knows its limitedness and is strong enough to withstand the temptation to venture into problems beyond its powers and capacities becomes a " psychological mind ". The method used by this mind, that is, the psychological method, is first of all a method of distinguishing between different levels of thinking and of realising the fact that perceptions change according to the powers and properties of the perceiving apparatus.
The psychological mind can see the limitations of the " logical mind " and the absurdities of the " defective mind "— it can understand the reality of the existence of a higher mind and of esoteric knowledge, and see it in its manifestations. This is impossible for a merely logical mind. If a man of logical mind hears about esotericism he will at once want to know where the people are who belong to the esoteric circle. The Power of Now. Ouspensky was born in Moscow in It is true I once took a course in speed-reading, but this time I was not using the techniques that I had learned at those sessions.
The Taj is a tomb, a burial site, but it is not a gravesite. Talks With a Devil. Joseph rated it liked it May 21, Anyone interested in the occult, mysticism and the relationship of those elements to scientific developments in the modern world will find much to ponder in these stimulating, thought-provoking pages.
Theurgy, or the Hermetic Practice. It was not my first reading of P. Beyond Religion Volume II. All this combination of issues in an attempt to unify under a new model of the universe that provides a ouspensy view of reality.
This is one of those books that need more than one reading. The real self must be formed through work, through a specific form of suffering, a discipline. I really wanted to, but it became so dry that I am more than willing to admit that there may have been diamonds waiting for me in these last two chapters, but those are for another mining session. Quotes from In Search of the Back when I was a callow youth, attending university and living unconsciously, I took a course at the university where this book was assigned as suggested reading.
This latter property is not what most people mean when they use this word. In fourth way groups, duping people seems to be a point of pride. Apr 27, Martina rated it liked it. Looking for beautiful books? May 20, Lloyd Francis rated it it was amazing. The esoteric thread amongst much of this amounts to — the ego and perception of the world as material is unreal, the true nature of reality and ourselves is infinite consciousness, aware only of itself.
Our job in life is to work on self-observation, presence, to try to become aware of our true nature, and rid ourselves of illusion. It seems as though it is suggested that it is possible to preserve some sort of unique, personal identity after death by working on ourselves. However, this would go against everything else I currently understand, that any sense of individuality is always an illusion compared to our true nature.
Simon: First of all, the self, as we experience it in this life, can exist on different levels. If our experience of self exists primarily in personality, then what we think of as self will disappear at the death of the body. Essence is also tied to the body, and will essentially disappear. It is only at the level of higher centers that we can begin to talk about something continuing to exist after death.
And this is what inner work is about: our afterlife experience will be dependent on the level of being we were able to amass in this life. Whether our experience is long or short or heaven-like or hell-like depends on what we do now. The second part of this puzzle has to do with the nature of consciousness itself. Consciousness implies an ability to transcend boundaries. It means that we are no longer limited to the senses.
If we can attach our sense of self to a consciousness that can move freely from body to body and experience directly what we now only guess at using our senses, then we can become a part of whatever we choose to participate in. It is this element of choice that is lacking in your present view. Consciousness is not just perception; it also needs to have elements of will and unity. This is esoteric or inner meaning of the Trinity found in Christian thought.
Without will we would have no choice about what consciousness participates in, and would just as easily find our perception merging with lower worlds. To be able to merge with higher beings what you can infinite consciousness we need to have enough control over our consciousness to navigate all the worlds that will be available to us, and that is gained through self remembering here and now.
I have discussed these ideas in other articles. Thanks for your response. I will read the articles you directed me to, and spend some time digesting the content. All the best. Your email address will not be published. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.
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April 23, at am. April 26, at am. May 2, at am. Many thanks. May 4, at am. Many thanks apologies if this was submitted twice, I tried to post it a couple of days ago, but got no notification, and it did not appear.
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